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This discussion document is about Byes in tournaments
19/03/06 Proposal That a bye in a tournament is not used unless all players or teams within a pool or section get a bye. During the WPA Triples of 2006 I came across a good number of people not happy about some teams within their pool or section receiving a win as a result of not playing (bye). It was perceived that it is not right that some have to play for their points and others not. Others simply objected to a long break as a result of a bye "we come to play Petanque, not to sit around for long stretches". Thanks for your input. -Tom van B.
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Comment 1 This is a hard one to resolve - as was indicated by the amount of discussion during the weekend. With an odd number of teams, the snake format and the insistence that an even number of games be played, the whole bye issue became important in a number of different ways.
On Saturday because of the odd number of teams and the tournament format already stating there would be 6 games, it necessitated the playing of the bye games after the main draw had been finished. This made the day very long to say the least. Given the small field overall - it may be time to visit the topic of playing only a one day tournament, if entries do not get above a certain number of teams (see comment 6 by Michael Emerson on this page).
On Sunday, the bowl had an odd number of teams again, with the number of games to be played an even number again - which required the addition of a bye. However rather than playing the bye games after the main round, it was decided to give all teams with a bye a 13-7 win. This was inconsistent with how the bye worked the previous day, so there was disgruntlement about that. In addition because of the random nature in which the bye was applied, it meant some teams only played teams with byes, which meant they were already a win down. However if teams were made to play the bye round, it would have made an already long weekend, just that much longer. Given that the bowl itself finished after all the other events, without the extra round - imagine what time we would have left!
And yes - there was a lot of waiting around - and not just for bye games.
How this issue could be resolved amicably is going to be difficult, as no matter what format is deemed to be fairest - someone is not going to be happy. If someone out there has a suggestion as to how to run a tournament with an odd number of teams fairly - then send in your suggestions! -Margret.
Comment 2 The answer is simple. If you use the snake system and have an odd number of teams you have an even number (usually 4 or 6 rounds) of rounds and in each of these rounds one team will have a bye. A final round is then played with just the teams that have had byes (4 teams or 6 teams); if you have a break for lunch then this 'final' round can be played then. Dave Ciano UK 20th April 2006
Comment 3 Does this mean we need all teams to have their lunch break at the same time in order for them to play their bye games during their lunch break. Is this likely to happen. I don't get it. -Tom.van B.
Comment 4 Imagine an odd number of teams; let us say 17. Using a snake you have six rounds and in each round one team has a bye. You therefore have six teams who have had a bye; these six teams make up the 'seventh' round which comprises three games of A v. B, C v. D and E v. F. At the end of this seventh round every team will have played six games.
Let us assume that there is a lunch break after the third round. You will tell the players that those teams who have a bye will get a shorter lunch break as they will have to play their 'bye round' during this period. It is better to play the 'seventh round' during the lunch break because if you play it at the end of the day lots of people will have to hang around for the results as they could affect final placings.
If there is no lunch break the 'seventh round' is held after the sixth. Dave Ciano UK 22th April 2006
Comment 5 Ok - the problem with what you are suggesting is that: 1)We don't have lunch breaks - as we have to get six rounds completed in the one day, so playing a "bye" game during lunch isn't a goer with our formats and 2)The original problem was about the very fact that teams with a bye in each round (as you had already suggested) were already required to play a "seventh" round after playing six rounds as part of the main draw.
Given that by the completion of the sixth round (especially when playing triples) many teams have already been playing for around eight hours, the need to play the "seventh" round as such after the main draw is completed means that some teams have been playing for around 10-11 hours with minimal breaks. The problem with people hanging around to find out placings goes without saying. Coming back the next day to play upto another eight hours is a real test of stamina - and there are good players out there (who due to a number of reasons) struggle to do this.
My original question (see comment 1) was around how to deal with the bye situation, *without* having to resort to playing a "seventh" round - whether it be in the lunch time (whenever that is) or at the end of a long days play? -Margret.
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